DarkBlizz

This is interesting. It could be possible that the AI is not complete in this release of the beta?

this is awesome!

So far, I've come across a few tidbits that could help in developing the AI scripts.

1. The Phase/State the AI is in is time controlled. Can be edited at NotHard file. Not sure if two states can run side by side. For example, Open and MidGndA.

2. AIClearStock() resets the AI in some way.

3. defaultExpansion function can be controlled by modifying the gas and mineral entries. As it counts every mineral and gas close to a TH, you can set the mineral and gas entries to trigger the AI to expand.

4. There are three modes of expansion: default, VitalHard, and Normal
     a. vital hard seems to include gas structures automatically

5. You can add if and while within the [race]0 files.

6. You can define functions there and call them in a "goto" sort of way. So you can actually make a loop between two functions.

7. The AI will rebuild stocked units through AIstock unless the AIClearStock is called.

8. AIStockandWait can be used in an if(!). This function automatically stocks in a unit or structure if the AI doesn't have it. Other actions following will wait for this to be true before being run.

9. TechCount using ordercompleteonly can also be used to make if statements. Works like AIstockandWait.

10. AIstock function does not run one after the other. The AI engine may decide to build/train the next cheapest item.

Things in mind/to test:

1. Is it possible to edit the retreat and attack items in order to make the AI not dance? Say increase the time before attacking in the section where the AI is not in combat but is not too weak? Can the difficulty be 2000 and set the ai's APM to 75 and not bog it down to achieve this result instead?

2. Is it possible to add randomization and enter build orders within each of the multiple openings and following MID and Lates through if statements?

3. Is it possible to use Counterunit and allow the AI to decide what unit to train while utilizing AIClearStock() to completely change the AI's unit composition and Base composition? Or is it better to use if's and randomization instead? Can we make the AI take information and as such use that information to call specific custom functions suitable to handle these information?


That's it for now. I'll update whenever I find more or make progress. Note that the exact terms are not there. I can't remember them all at this time, but will update them for those who are not familiar with the code.

Quote from: nemukud on March 02, 2010, 09:13:57 AM

I assume it's obvious for everyone there's no way we'll get our hands on a more intelligent AI from Blizzard.
It won't be in the beta files, Blizzard is not that stupid. Especially now, when people got their hands on a working crack.


Well... we'll have to make our own. It won't be easy, but will keep us busy until the game is released.
We have a baby AI from Blizz, we only need (1 - ) people who know how to teach this baby and (2 - ) people who know what to teach this baby in order to turn him into a pro player.


So the point of this thread is to call for everyone to give their full support to those who are already working so hard to teach this baby some lessons.
As most of us have no (or limited) skills in programming, the only thing we can do is to help those working on the AIs find good strategies to make it look more realistic and harder to beat.


I have some suggestions and I think a lot of you guys will have better ones.
Here they are:
1. The basic micro management of the AI should be better worked as this is not race dependent an therefore easier to implement (at least I think so).
This will make AI lose less units and deal more damage. Atm with a little micro you can easily destroy AI's much more bigger army making it easy to beat even if it has a good build path and a strong army.
(e: attack that SCV repairing the bunker / attack with all units one enemy unit / retreat the unit being attacked while the other deal the damage etc. - more experienced players could add more to the list )
2. Protect from harassment. The current AI is very weak against resource line drops and harassment. This is also not so race dependent.
(e: some turrets/canons around the base and near the resource line)
3. Protect from cloaked units. Get detectors as soon as possible to be able to counter cloaked units.
4. Scout for expansions and attack the least defended. Maybe more attacks at the same time (hard to counter for real players).
(This 4 points are the most important imo. Even if it cheats or have 1 mil apms it will be easier to beat by exploiting this weaknesses)


5. Use a basic/popular build path. Based on the race, use popular builds used by real players (maybe someone can post some nice builds, I haven't played so much yet).
Even if it will be the same build every game. Once there is a good build you can work on new ones and make it choose the build based on the information gathered by scouting/scanning in order to counter opponent's build.
Probably this is the hardest thing to achieve and for sure it requires a lot of work and time.
This could also be divided in builds for early,middle and late game.
Probably the best way is to get a good early build for the beginning and while the other builds are being worked out we (those who are good only at playing  ) could test it and give feedback about its weaknesses.


I will test some early game P build and make another post about it, more in detail. I hope maybe someone can post some good builds meanwhile.
I'm sure those more experienced know some really good ones.
I think it will be really helpful for devs if we can gather some builds and present them like here:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2_Gateway_(vs._Zerg)
(can someone working at AI scripting confirm this?)


Sorry for my English, not a native English speaker. And also for the long post (I was getting bored at work  ).


PS: Probably this is not some breaking news but I thought it would be nice to gather all this kind of info somewhere so devs will need less time testing builds and strategies and have more time for scripting the AI.

There's still some limits the AI cannot do atm. They can respond to base raids when units are there. This means if we can force the AI to leave some units while it is doing an attackwave, there should be some defense there.

I suspect the AI we have at the moment in the engine is not complete with functions that takes every condition, and thus appropriate response, into consideration.

But I'm shooting in the dark here as well.

Quote from: Marc0v on March 02, 2010, 06:49:49 AM
I downloaded ccleaner, used it and I have still this problem 

Try deleting all the folders related to sc2. Do a fresh install, let it update, and apply the cracks.

This one worked for me.

Quote from: chetjan on March 01, 2010, 10:04:07 PM
Just curious is the language for the custom maps (and possibly AI) still going to be in JASS?

It's like C somewhat. But I'm just mumbling. Maybe someone will make a simple tool that inserts codes and such one of these days.

It's easier if knowledge of the functions and what they do are provided. I'm sure the top guys are on this thing already.

Quote from: JPeterson on March 02, 2010, 08:31:57 AM

Quote from: turdburgler on March 02, 2010, 05:39:24 AM
- AI doesn't build defences in expands

I'll put some focus on this, I'm pretty sure I can do it easily.

How would you do that? I think all AISetStock for buildings goes in the main. And we can't tell it to post units at expansions. Is there a special function for expansion protection?

Besides it's not the optimal strategy to have any more expansion protection than a few turrets and a bunker possibly. The AI should ideally see that an attack on an expansion is impending and send units to intercept. Although it doesn't really do that, it only sends protection when the attack has already begun.

I think there's a function that allows you to specify where the building is to be built. I have no clue yet how to work this. Maybe using townOne, townTwo, etc.? Or using SetMainTown?

I am quite sure though that if you want the AI to expand, the numbers for minerals and gas are compared to the remaining minerals and gas of owned expos.

So, say the main has 12000 min, 5000 gas, if the AI has 1 expo, and you want it to expand 3rd, use the defaultexpand with say, 24000 min and 10000 gas. The ai will expand.

It doesn't expand though when a destructible rock is there. If you destroy it, the AI will expand there.

I'm still having this problem and system restore didn't help. Anyone experiencing this problem as well?

Edit:

Fixed it by reinstalling, and deleting all traces of the previous install. Including directories. Made a clean install, patch, and all.

I'm having this problem as well. It happened after AV reported something, which I opted to move to the vault.

Since then I get stuck at about 90% upon load.

I'm using lazylaunch 2.0 with this.

Quote from: urbanskittlezz on February 28, 2010, 02:36:19 PM
how do i download the v3.0 AI ? are you talking about this? http://darkblizz.org/Forum2/index.php?topic=582.0

Not really. It's something else, haven't released it yet as I am having problems with forcing the AI to expand.

I've done some work with Broodwar AI, and have some familiarity with its structure. This one however is so new I'm still figuring out if all the functions actually work.


Any help would be appreciated.

I suppose this is possible if there is a command for the ai to check players in the map and set them to Ally if they're AI. I haven't found something that could help in this, atm.

I'm currently building something like this. It is supposed to follow build orders and progress through the game in the proper pace. I'm having problems with forcing the AI to expand at certain conditions, and the protoss ai doesn't have the Chrono Boost tactic available.

I'll make something that's good for paced practice, and will post it up here maybe 2-3 days from now.