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Author Topic: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy  (Read 1598 times)

Kernel64

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HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« on: April 06, 2010, 11:59:48 PM »
Hey guys, I'm currently developing and coding HexBox AI. It can contain potentially hundreds of strats, including timed pushes.

It seems that if the AI had stuff that people do it will make for a good semi-practice partner. It's a non-cheating AI, and does well if given a good strat/BO.

I would gladly include the strats you want to be in it. So, please don't hesitate to post them in detail them below.


Dracogon

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 01:55:40 AM »
heres mine:
10 drones
ovie
pool
extractor
more drones till 16
queen
ovie
lings(4-16)
lair
extractor
more drones
spire
muta
more mutas
even more mutas


i guess you can throw in a expo at some point

Chriamon

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 09:49:21 PM »
I figured I'd contribute My favorite strat:

10 Drone (total)
2 Overlord (total; etc)
14 drone
pool
14 drone
extractor
15 drone
3 overlord
16 drone
1 queen

somewhere around here, right as gas finishes:
  Evolution chamber

pump zerglings with about 2/3 of the eggs going to lings, 1/3 to drones until satisfied with econ (just like 3 or 4 more drones)

first 100 gas upgrade z-ling attack
next 100 gas z-ling speed
next 100 lair

expand

as speed finishes, attack with your lings, and keep puping lings from both hatches (don't make many drones from second hatch, move workers from first base)

If the initial rush doesn't win , against good players and/or terran with wallin (those jerks)
continue to tech up to w/e (I like to throw a spire down)


Probably hard to make the AI do, as it isn't a build order per se, but it shouldn't be impossible.

Really only loses if you don't scout and you cant micro lings.

P.S. I downloaded your dev build, and I must say, it is very impressive, even though the functions are obfuscated, it is really interesting to look through. (and your timer function helped me out a lot in my AI design)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 09:52:05 PM by Chriamon »

Kernel64

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 09:56:22 AM »
obfuscated sounds cool. I apologize if it looks a little confusing.

I've been testing these strats, and yes, most strats do require that the AI should know how to manage their forces. In sc2 or even in Sc1, losing 30% of your forces at a crucial timing can cost you the game.

It is very possible though, just as you said, and it can be done given HexBox AI allows you to give the AI protocols on how to use its army, when, and where.

There are still functions needed in HexBox AI, this is one of the prime reasons why it is made public, so the guys who have more time, energy, and ideas can add more functions, protocols, etc to the AI and eventually make it easier for the non-programmer to add their own decision making, counters, tactics, army control, etc into the AI.

I am hoping that as soon as HexBox AI matures, a simple editor can be made for it so that it would take only clicks to add in new commands for the AI to use, new conditions to weigh things on, etc.

I'm working on these strats, and I'm waiting for someone to post a strat that could effectively counter a mass tier 1 protoss strat with 4 gate that evolves to 6 gate +1 expo. This protoss strat involves:

rush/harass with zeals,
+stalker support
(switch) stalker harass (no blink, at about 10 stalkers, 5 zeals)
then eventually a mass of 14 stalkers, 8 zeals.


Chriamon

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 10:04:12 AM »
obfuscated sounds cool. I apologize if it looks a little confusing.

I've been testing these strats, and yes, most strats do require that the AI should know how to manage their forces. In sc2 or even in Sc1, losing 30% of your forces at a crucial timing can cost you the game.

It is very possible though, just as you said, and it can be done given HexBox AI allows you to give the AI protocols on how to use its army, when, and where.

There are still functions needed in HexBox AI, this is one of the prime reasons why it is made public, so the guys who have more time, energy, and ideas can add more functions, protocols, etc to the AI and eventually make it easier for the non-programmer to add their own decision making, counters, tactics, army control, etc into the AI.

I am hoping that as soon as HexBox AI matures, a simple editor can be made for it so that it would take only clicks to add in new commands for the AI to use, new conditions to weigh things on, etc.

I'm working on these strats, and I'm waiting for someone to post a strat that could effectively counter a mass tier 1 protoss strat with 4 gate that evolves to 6 gate +1 expo. This protoss strat involves:

rush/harass with zeals,
+stalker support
(switch) stalker harass (no blink, at about 10 stalkers, 5 zeals)
then eventually a mass of 14 stalkers, 8 zeals.

Honestly, I think both of the strats posted could potentially beat that, it really depends on the level of micro (from both players). I know that, as a player, a roach rush works great, adding in lings if the opponent has too many stalkers. It really depends on the timing of the initial attack, and how the battle goes.

Also, when I said the code was obfuscated, I was mistaken. The first file I opened was ZergUtil.galaxy, and right at the top it has all of those IQU and SQU variables, I just assumed it was obfuscated, but after further investigation, it all makes perfect sense :D.

Kernel64

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 10:24:08 AM »
Awesome. :)

ptanhkhoa

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 01:31:36 AM »
I think it best to have an strategy for race vs race. For instant, marine & maraunder seems good vs other race but useless against terrans. And Darktemplar & Air unit seem goods vs Zerg but useless against terran. (Except VoidRay )
_ For terran, it is better to use Swap bulding function (Starcrack team already make this code ^^), at the beginning, use using one barrack + reactor and factory + Techlab for siegetank => so better defense and attack, later uyo can swap them to product Marauder & Hellion instead to counter with other strategy.
_ For Protoss, the most awesome unit is hightemlar, which can kill a mass terran soldier or zerg unit with just have 2 or 3 of them.  For most time, the protoss was able to win terran or zerg are because of this unit.
 You should buying the Hightemplar when it begin the process of research "Pristorm", so in the time of finishing the research, the Hightemlar already have enough energy  to cast storm.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 04:49:47 AM by ptanhkhoa »

Kernel64

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 04:13:53 AM »
That's awesome man. I'm adding your thoughts into the list.

Indeed, race specific strats is the only way to go, and that's definitely what HexBoxAI should accomplish.

Again, this is very helpful and will eventually lead to a better AI not just for HexBox but for the many other AI projects as well.

Thanks, and please don't hesitate to post more strats.

Chain[s]aw

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 06:04:51 AM »
Hey :)... i must say i love the what you are doing and wondering something since im a noob at creating ai.....
 
Is it possible that once a game starts or before you can choose what strat an ai will choose so i can practice my builds and strategy against it?
 
I mean if you can that would be awesome... so for example i wanna try a new build against a certain strategy or just learn the basic to defending against it i can... so is that possible for you do achieve? or am i seeing too far ahead human capability with the resources they have?
 
thanks :)

Kernel64

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 03:48:17 PM »
Chainaw,Yeah, it is possible. The most apparent work-around is typing something. As simple as 1,2,3, or Enter, 12, Enter, will then set the AI to the 12th opening, which then leads to the 12th tier 1.5, and so forth.

This is an excellent idea, however, we do really need to at least have a well-cooked metagame before even knowing if a certain strat is worth practicing over.

But, yeah, it is possible, and so the more stuff we get listed down in this thread, the merrier AIs become as practice partners.

Vods, replays, etc.. these are invaluable as well.

ptanhkhoa

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 03:19:13 AM »
Quote
Chainaw,Yeah, it is possible. The most apparent work-around is typing   something. As simple as 1,2,3, or Enter, 12, Enter, will then set the AI   to the 12th opening, which then leads to the 12th tier 1.5, and so   forth.

It is a very neat idea, how can you recognize the input text of the player :) ? I think if you can do this you can order the ally AI to do something for us to. For ex : Tell them to Attack what player, focus on producing something or help from them. So it good when playing vs team.

Kernel64

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Re: HexBox AI Needs Your Strategy
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 05:12:04 AM »
Quote
Chainaw,Yeah, it is possible. The most apparent work-around is typing   something. As simple as 1,2,3, or Enter, 12, Enter, will then set the AI   to the 12th opening, which then leads to the 12th tier 1.5, and so   forth.

It is a very neat idea, how can you recognize the input text of the player :) ? I think if you can do this you can order the ally AI to do something for us to. For ex : Tell them to Attack what player, focus on producing something or help from them. So it good when playing vs team.

Using TriggerAddEventChatMessage(..). It's kinda tricky, as you might immediately notice, since the input must be done before the first 2 workers get stocked/trained. 2 is arbitrary though, but more likely since most BOs do diverge from there.

You're absolutely right, this could prove very interesting. I assume, should the coming patch with the Galaxy Editor contain a complete AI, we can simply create a menu much like AMAIs for Warcraft 3.

In any case, I'm sure someone will find the most effective way to make this happen.

Very exciting.