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May 22, 2012, 10:07:41 AM

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Author Topic: AI vs. AI utility  (Read 1835 times)

brightb

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AI vs. AI utility
« on: June 21, 2010, 11:40:36 PM »
I was not sure if I should post this here, or in the AI dev. section.

I am currently interested in pitting various AI's against each other, to see how they would react towards one another, and which would come out as victor.

Is there a program or utility that could be used for such a thing?
(I searched through the forums using the search feature, but found no solid results)

Does anyone know where I could find such a program, or could you point me in the right direction?
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AI vs. AI utility
« on: June 21, 2010, 11:40:36 PM »

etherealG

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 06:26:05 PM »
if you use a launcher like all-in-one, and make 2 players that are both AI, that should do the trick :) put 1st player as yourself as an observer too to see all their actions.
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Chriamon

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2010, 10:22:07 AM »
Not possible to make a tool currently. There is no standard way to program AIs, so everyone pretty much does it their own way. If you want to do anything besides a mirror matchup, for example ZvT you can probably just copy one AIs Zerg.galaxy and include files, and the other AI's Terran.galaxy files and included files to a folder and use the launcher with that. But thats not guaranteed to work. If an AI modifies the meleeAI.galaxy file, it probably wouldn't work.
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etherealG

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2010, 11:30:54 AM »
well, when editing a map file you can specify an AI's "difficulty". That is a function call. So what you could maybe do is write a wrapper AI that just passes off to other AI's folders.

So you would have

AI
  -wrapper files to make AI work, has the same functions a a normal AI and sends those functions to one of the other folders
  -AI A folder
  -AI B folder
  -AI C folder

Then your wrapped files will choose which of the other AI's to use based on a player AI setting, similar to the current player.setdifficulty() for settting how hard the AI is.

It wouldn't be that hard actually. Maybe if I'm bored I'll write it :)
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Vernam7

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 10:43:27 AM »
i was thinking almost the same think 1 month ago, about diff per player but i need some AI guys to do it i dont want to start working on AI too, but they mus be persuaded that seems "easy" possible, and do it!


the problem is the AI developers are focusing on improving strategies instead of doint some realy innovated stuff as i told them that ARE possible! like team play with AI and ordering it!


hope they will do it


the only AI arround is StarCrack because Green and Dark TIe AI is actually a copy of starcrack (the developers admit that) and they tried to improve it them selfes, but not inovate!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 10:46:28 AM by Vernam7 »
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King_Yoshi

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 05:04:14 PM »
Well i seem to like ethrealg's idea, but don't have the time to start up such a  project. Maybe later on, once I have some time I could do such a thing. :)

But thank you for all your input so far. :)
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ptanhkhoa

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 07:37:35 PM »
@vernam 7: from patch 9 or below, it maybe that way, but after that update I redone almost the cost and not depend on starcrack code anymore.  I keep develop the core code while develop strategies at ones times.
   _ Like the attack and return code not depend on wave, some it not back and force very much like Starcrack AI.
   _ The new build function which build near the choke, and not depend on the flags.
   _ Most different between Starcrack and Green Tea is Green Tea don't use any stock function and don't have transition time from Begin - Mid, it can tech at any time they want.
   So you can see that Green Tea AI is not depend on Starcrack code anymore. I admit that Starcrack AI are innovatve in micro like the Flying and change building.  But they give me and impression to start writing :).
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Vernam7

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 06:27:43 AM »
Quote from: ptanhkhoa on June 27, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
@vernam 7: from patch 9 or below, it maybe that way, but after that update I redone almost the cost and not depend on starcrack code anymore.  I keep develop the core code while develop strategies at ones times.
   _ Like the attack and return code not depend on wave, some it not back and force very much like Starcrack AI.
   _ The new build function which build near the choke, and not depend on the flags.
   _ Most different between Starcrack and Green Tea is Green Tea don't use any stock function and don't have transition time from Begin - Mid, it can tech at any time they want.
   So you can see that Green Tea AI is not depend on Starcrack code anymore. I admit that Starcrack AI are innovatve in micro like the Flying and change building.  But they give me and impression to start writing :) .


the point is not if its still starcrack core or it was based on starcrack core, i dont care personally i didnt wrote a single line in that AI so i dont care, but the problem is maybe you are facing challenges now because you were building upon scai that comes to dead ends!


my comments is not intended to insult or give the impression that Tie AI is not supirior, no ofcaurse not.
its only comments to help you understand how you should build from now own your AI!


my details are posts at nibbits as i am not visiting here that often. you can go thereand read my ideas and feedback!


hope you an implement those and then trust me you will have the best AI (untill someone else comes back from the dead ;-)

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etherealG

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 11:06:21 AM »
Quote from: ptanhkhoa on June 27, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
@vernam 7: from patch 9 or below, it maybe that way, but after that update I redone almost the cost and not depend on starcrack code anymore.  I keep develop the core code while develop strategies at ones times.
   _ Like the attack and return code not depend on wave, some it not back and force very much like Starcrack AI.
   _ The new build function which build near the choke, and not depend on the flags.
   _ Most different between Starcrack and Green Tea is Green Tea don't use any stock function and don't have transition time from Begin - Mid, it can tech at any time they want.
   So you can see that Green Tea AI is not depend on Starcrack code anymore. I admit that Starcrack AI are innovatve in micro like the Flying and change building.  But they give me and impression to start writing :) .

well, for me as a player, having tried sc and your AI, that yours is much much harder to beat. of course both have some things they seem to respond badly to, like harrassment etc. but in a normal head to head game building most common units, greentea waaaay out-does sc! So from me, a biiiig thanks for a really good AI to practice against while we wait for release.
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RB01

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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2010, 09:38:08 AM »
if you are talking about, for example starcrack ai vs greentea ai. you could find the galexy file that contains the scripts for various dificulties, and put greentea hardmode inside starcrack easymode, launch with starcrack ai and put easy vs hard and you have a greentea vs stracrack matchup.


hope this made sense.
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Re: AI vs. AI utility
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2010, 09:38:08 AM »
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