StarCrack AI Official Feedback Thread (V5.5)

[Lenor]

it's because you don't attack them very often,keep the presure up and you'll win.If you give it time to expand you're doomed

[Moanon]

As 1337 said, ( at least in 5.1, I still haven't tried 5.5 ;O ) when AIs exp they don't use any defenses at all, actually.. so it's kind of an exploit to wait for an AI to expand, demolish it/kill all his workers and he's kind of doomed after that.. 

[Artanis186]

Hey, first post on this forum. Loving the site btw.

On-topic.. The AI is nice and all, but it doesn't really seem to give me too much of a challenge. I have a few issues and recommendations.

Generally, whenever you're attacking their base, they just keep gathering and w/e. I think when their base is under heavy attack, they should make some attempt for their workers to flee.

The Zerg's first wave attacked me, saw I had a nice defense up and fled, 10 seconds later, came back, fled, and it just went on like that for a while till I actually attacked back. He had a nice force and all, but his constant attempts were draining his forces slowly. I think they should retreat to their base, gather up a sizable force, and then attack.

When units are outnumbered/outpowered, they flee. But when I use Stalkers, they really have no chance of escaping. Maybe make them somehow determine if they can't flee successfully and have them at least try to damage my troops instead of wasting theirs.

Well, that's all I can think of for now.

Here's the replay I base my assumptions off: Download

(Notice: Second game of StarCraft 2 melee, and I was terrible at the originals melee)

[JPeterson]

The AI is nice and all, but it doesn't really seem to give me too much of a challenge. I have a few issues and recommendations.

Thanks for the input. This won't help a lot but I will say that I've experience the same thing and it's hard to make it tougher than this. It's possible to modify the macro in the Zerg0.galaxy file and the micro in the Tactical*.galaxy files but it takes a lot of work. It may not be practically possible to make the AI much harder than this. Have you seen any other RTS AI that is much smarter?

The best thing in my opinion would be if we find a way to team up two AIs against us. That could challenge our APM a little.

[limonel25]

Just played like 10 games under 5.5 no cheat, all with mixed results but overall very impressive. Early/Mid game is near flawless. Scouting and rushing at very normal 'human' intervals. Zerg seems most powerful early/mid, nice mix of lings/roaches. The back and forth moment actually seems to help with toss units and roaches, as they regen shield/hp. But that cpu movement glitch is still very exploitable (obviously) so I tried to play all my games not exploiting that.


Terran CPU
Seemed stuck on early/mid game units a bit too long, stayed with Marine/Marauder and then added tanks/viking to the mix, but seemed too much of a general of a mix and had no focus. Its rushes and movement glitch greatly hindered Terran, so never was under much of a threat. It did expand quite often, but not enough protection as Terran is a bit less mobile.


Zerg CPU
Incredible early/mid game. Lost once actually to non stop pressure of lings/roaches, which I held off until I noticed it also expanded twice while rushing. Eventually I was trapped and succumbed to the endless wave of zerg. I did not have much experience against late game Zerg.


Protoss CPU
Zealot rushes seem to be the theme early/mid game, which is always pretty formidable (unless you wall off). I played against toss 3 times and twice I was able to end it mid game by Micro, but the third game was one hell of one. I let them build-up and oh boy did they ever. Carriers in masse. They also expanded about 5 times so that was nice to see. Unfortunately it came down to Micro in each game, and that's where of course it's a bit glitchy.


Overall you have to applaud the Macro skill of the AI in this build. I had an absolute blast in the games I played and I look forward to what your upcoming builds have to offer. Thanks a million times over!

[JPeterson]

But that cpu movement glitch is still very exploitable(obviously) so I tried to play all my games not exploiting that.

Yes you have to be a little easy on the AI and let it live for a while and expand so you can have some fun with it.

Carriers in masse.

That happened to me too. I didn't scout it well so it took me a little by surprise and I had to fight hard to beat it. That was a fun game. Of course now that I know that the toss will go carriers in the late game it's less of challenge.

[Valen]

Hello, newbie here.
I got a question. After I downloaded v5.5, I was suddenly unable to play on this map: http://www.nibbits.com/sc2/maps/view/131551/ai-ver-2-ffa-1-player-3-crazy-computers-lt. Is it not compatible with v5.5 or something? The other maps seem to work on the other hand.
Any ideas? Thanks.

[Giz]

What is the diff between v5.5 and cheating v5.5? which one do majority use? has anyone tried cheating v5.5 is it harder?

[JPeterson]

OK I have played several 4-player FFA games on Kulas Ravine and Lost Temple and every time, I was terran... The protoss player invaded my main base early with zealots every game and I lifted off my command center (and my new command center just built) and took over the high-yield minerals and nearby expansion. The protoss player never attacked my base again after that

Did this happen on Lost Temple too? It's a glitch in Kulas Ravine that the AI never destroys any destructible rocks. But in Lost Temple it's strange that it wouldn't go to the high-yield patch if you relocate there.

[grez0r]

I'm using version 5.5 AI.

I noticed a pattern in all the races. First all when they scout, it's very annoying having your units keep chasing it, but if you (Hold position) at your choke their scout will go back and forth like a spaz. After a while they will send their first wave and they will do the same thing if you're blocking the choke and they don't have range. When you mass enough and engage and battle with their forces they will hit and run, basically repeating the back and forth pattern.  Pretty much playing cat mouse game.

I found that you if follow them back to their base you can either beat them or lose your forces in battle at their base. When I use protoss I always get sentinel and force field their retreat path and just annihilates them.

If you turtle, they will come at you with tier 3 units and if you're not ready you will lose.

Anyhoo, keep up the awesome work, they're already almost like SC1 normal AI and this is just from tweaking the easy AI from blizzard I assume. 

[JPeterson]

Could you post a complete change log? Or include it in a future release?

The easiest way may be to check the svn change log here.

If you have TortoiseSVN you can download http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/sc2ai/trunk and can compare the latest version to any previous version with  'Show log' > right click on a revision > 'Compare with working copy'. Update: No that didn't work because there was no read-only access for the svn. What you can do then is to manually do the same thing with 'diff -u TriggerLibsOld TriggerLibsNew > TriggerLibs.diff' in the diff file comparison utility.

[lovetoby]

Kay... so far jut watched 4 observer games, all with mixed races:
SO FAR... THX for the good job

BUT: 5.1 Zerg was damn easy -> 5.5 Zerg is the dominator, they keep the other ai so much under pressure, that terrans and toss cannot get along with it... i talk about the early game phase, Zerg rushed one player completely then attacked all the others... i think u pulled down toss because of theri quick build basement, but i think the early phase should be some kind of defence being build by terran sand toss cause zerglings  could easyily be attacked with o bunker or photon cannon... so maybe while ZERG is doing a terrible rush in the early phase, toss and terran should think of its defence, while they are not allowed to build as much units as zergs do...

[chikopaws]

But that cpu movement glitch is still very exploitable(obviously) so I tried to play all my games not exploiting that.

Yes you have to be a little easy on the AI and let it live for a while and expand so you can have some fun with it.

Carriers in masse.

That happened to me too. I didn't scout it well so it took me a little by surprise and I had to fight hard to beat it. That was a fun game. Of course now that I know that the toss will go carriers in the late game it's less of challenge.

I never scout against AI 

[chikopaws]

Kay... so far jut watched 4 observer games, all with mixed races:
SO FAR... THX for the good job

BUT: 5.1 Zerg was damn easy -> 5.5 Zerg is the dominator, they keep the other ai so much under pressure, that terrans and toss cannot get along with it... i talk about the early game phase, Zerg rushed one player completely then attacked all the others... i think u pulled down toss because of theri quick build basement, but i think the early phase should be some kind of defence being build by terran sand toss cause zerglings  could easyily be attacked with o bunker or photon cannon... so maybe while ZERG is doing a terrible rush in the early phase, toss and terran should think of its defence, while they are not allowed to build as much units as zergs do...

yeah I agree,,so far as I seen in v5.5 zerg is always win vs other AI

[2g4u]

Zerg is fine like it is now. I had a ZvZ incredibly close game, ty for providing so much fun. Terran and Toss are still weak against early/early-mid game harassment by Zerg.

What I hope to see in future versions:

• Better micro not just attack - flee - flee - flee -attack, loosing a big amount of units this way.
• Better solutions for dealing with walling, that includes clever use of Nydus Worm, Medivac, Warp gates.
• The AI going for workers or undefended expansions first.
• The AI using his "caster" units abilities.